Accelerate Podcast with Andy Paul
November 27, 2017

#602 Avoid the Pitfalls of Online Marketing. With Bill Troy.

Bill Troy, CEO of Civilis Marketing and author of the upcoming book Clicksand, joins me on this episode of #Accelerate!


  • Bill says the single biggest challenge facing sales reps today is how the online marketing mindset has affected sales reps. They see leads in an adversarial way to be lured. This is a different path from building relationships.
  • Bill’s upcoming book warns sales reps against adopting a marketing view. Bill misses the optimism of approaching a client to work with them, not against them.
  • Big data is interpreted through algorithms. Algorithms are written by people with a stake in the sales process. If an ‘open rate’ is the key for email, what happens when you use a deceptive subject line to tweak the open rate?
  • Email and other online marketing provide a form of anonymity and make it easier to act differently than you would face-to-face.
  • Clark Stanley started selling snake oil at the 1893 Chicago World’s Fair, mixed fresh on site. He built a multi-million dollar whole business on this ‘liniment.’ He was finally shut down for false labeling practices. It still happens.
  • One third of Bill’s book is about all the triggers in our brains that cause a snake oil pitch to work. In ten years people will talk about how everybody bought the online marketing magic pill. Fear of missing out is one trigger.
  • Bill wants marketers to stand up and say, this isn’t right. A $2K ad will not bring in a $1million sale. There are appropriate techniques. Start with your marketing and sales approach, and see what tools you need to use.
  • Bill gives an example from his book of why one-to-one sales are needed. Even online marketing sellers sell online marketing in person.
  • Build your sales and marketing process around what your prospect needs in order to buy from you. This may mean building a relationship before starting a sale.
  • Companies have sales processes but are missing relationship processes.
  • Don’t use online marketing in a one-to-many model. You aren’t selling to many, you are selling to one person, and the model must be directed to that person with their own needs.
  • Whatever you are looking for a client to invest in you, show you are investing that much in them. Marketing is for putting yourself into the position to have a one-on-one conversation with a prospect. Make it good.


For Vice Presidents of Sales of high-growth companies and built on recurring revenue — Andy is teaming up with his friend Jacco van der Kooij, founder of Winning by Design and author of Blueprints of a SaaS Sales Organization, to launch the Sales Leadership Accelerator Mastermind, an intensive 12-month learning, coaching, and mastermind program for the Vice Presidents of Sales of high-growth subscription-based companies. If the responsibility sits on your shoulders to scale your revenue team, to hit the $100 million mark ARR and beyond, then the Sales Leadership Accelerator Mastermind will help you transform how you sell, scale, and develop the capabilities of your team to crush your goals. Enrollment is limited to a very small group, so go to now, to learn more and enroll today.

November 13, 2017

#596 Think Like a Marketer to Build Your Sales Brand. With John Jantsch.

John Jantsch, President at Duct Tape Marketing, joins me on this episode of #Accelerate!


  • John says the single biggest challenge facing sales reps today is the change in the way people buy. A sales rep must add more value, such as caring about buyer needs.
  • John plays the long game. He shares what works. He keeps his customers for years. He loves what he does. He says people don’t find negative reviews of Duct Tape Marketing. He is customer-centric.
  • John says to focus on using technology, not for its newness, but to add client value. To work really hard for a long time is the secret to success.
  • John’s book, Duct Tape Selling, is based on the premise that sales and marketing are moving closer together. Salespeople need to start building their brand to add value. Perceptive listening s to let the client lead the way.
  • Reps following a script sometimes miss cues from the customer that lead the conversation away from the script but towards a sale. Listening perceptively helps avoid missing cues. Don’t assume what the client wants — ask.
  • Andy tells reps to listen without filters and forget biases about what is right for the client. Help the client come to the right decision based on their needs. The client should talk more than the rep, especially in discovery.
  • Robert Cialdini notes in Pre-Suasion that we not only buy from people we know, like, and trust, but that like us, too. See how long you can ask somebody questions before talking about yourself.
  • John talks about being your own talking logo, or sales affirmation. When asked what you do for a living, answer in a way that is interesting to the person. They don’t care about your product; they want to solve their problem.
  • When people ask John what he does, he says he installs marketing systems. People generally they ask follow-up questions to learn more. John has a client who does SEO. He says, ‘I make the phone ring.’ That generates interest.
  • Salespeople may want their own website. Some organizations resist it. Resistance may come from legal compliance, or from fear of losing the rep. Customers will search you. Add value to build your sales.
  • John discovered while writing his book that marketing and sales compensation is so misaligned that there is guaranteed conflict between the groups. Compensation may need to be adjusted to fit new circumstances.
  • John says that the sale is not complete until the customer gets a result. Sales reps in it for the long haul will advocate for the client.


For Vice Presidents of Sales of high-growth companies and built on recurring revenue — Andy is teaming up with his friend Jacco van der Kooij, founder of Winning by Design and author of Blueprints of a SaaS Sales Organization, to launch the Sales Leadership Accelerator Mastermind, an intensive 12-month learning, coaching, and mastermind program for the Vice Presidents of Sales of high-growth subscription-based companies. If the responsibility sits on your shoulders to scale your revenue team, to hit the $100 million mark ARR and beyond, then the Sales Leadership Accelerator Mastermind will help you transform how you sell, scale, and develop the capabilities of your team to crush your goals. Enrollment is limited to a very small group, so go to now, to learn more and enroll today.

October 2, 2017

#578 Optimize the Customer Sales Experience to Win More. With Jay Baer.

Jay Baer, digital marketing expert, online customer service expert, and author of several NYT bestselling books, including Youtility and Hug Your Haters, joins me on this episode of #Accelerate!


[6:01] Jay says the single biggest challenge facing sales reps today is a lack of trust in organizations. Research from Nielsen says we trust people twice as much as organizations, so good salespeople are very important now.

[6:45] As AI becomes more involved in sales, salespeople will see a renaissance. People want genuine conversations with humans. Andy cites Geoff Colvin’s Humans Are Underrated.

[9:13] KLM is remarkably good with digital social services, especially social media in 14 languages. Their messaging is handled by bots, until a key term or question is used, and the conversation is handed off to a human.

[14:50] Jay gives lectures on sales and marketing alignment, which he considers incredibly important. Marketing plays deep in the funnel, and sales acts more like marketing. Jay suggests sales and marketing should attend each other’s’ meetings.

[19:03] Sales and marketing both need to get out of the office and meet customers. Have user conferences and customer conferences, if you can’t get on their turf.

[22:33] Marketing and sales are not credited for renewals, so they spend their budget on the things that get them compensation. It’s important to keep customers, but nobody organizes their companies to do so. It’s all about acquisition.

[24:29] Sales requires lots of leads. We have a great understanding on what generates leads but less expertise on what generates renewals. We need a renewals playbook.

[25:31] 80% of marketing digital budgets are on customer acquisition, and they are getting a close rate of 25%. How do we change this poor rate? Poorly qualified leads yield poor results.

[27:21] The salesperson sets the overall customer expectation. The customer doesn’t care what is written on the website or said in the webinar. If the salesman over-promises, the customer will be unhappy with customer success.

[30:22] Jay suggests triggers that add humanity to the inhuman process of marketing. Putting a connection to the people behind the product helps.

[33:06] Humanization adds human characteristics to the organization. Personalization adds relevancy to the customer journey by tailoring the customer experience to the customer.

[34:39] The uniquely human sales skills and behaviors become more important, not less, as AI comes more into play.


Today is the 2nd Anniversary of Accelerate! Accelerate! Has been downloaded well over one million times and recognized twice by Inc.! Andy would like to hear from you about your favorite episode, guest, or topic. See the complete list of episodes at Leave Andy a message about your favorite episode to receive a free signed copy of Amp Up Your Sales: Powerful Strategies That Move Customers to Make Fast, Favorable Decisions, by Andy Paul. You will need to provide your physical mailing address to receive the book.

The new Accelerate! schedule starts today, October 2, with episodes released on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.


August 23, 2017

#549. Align Your Marketing and Sales Teams to Increase Your Revenue. With Hugh MacFarlane.

Hugh MacFarlane, originator of ‘The Buyer’s Journey,’ author of The Leaky Funnel, and Founder and CEO of Align.Me, joins me on this episode of #Accelerate!


[3:11] Hugh says the single biggest challenge facing sales reps today is wanting to tell their story before the customer is ready to hear it, instead of hearing the buyer’s story, and letting that direct what to say to them. What’s the buyer’s idea?

[5:06] A rep must know what the customer already thinks. In the past, the rep was the source of knowledge. Today, the customer knows more about the product use case than the rep does. Marketing can supply the rep with info on the buyer.

[7:52] Sales and Marketing alignment is building a process together that both departments know, in which they both do their part. It does not require cross-training, but training specific to the role.

[11:22] Hugh compares alignment to a relay race. Reps don’t need to know how to write copy. They need to know prospects have been reading blogs and downloading white papers.

[12:19] Turf wars come from job insecurity over new technologies and processes. Working together serves the customer better. Hugh talks about the evolution of the process being an important factor in sales success.

[14:22] Hugh details the firmographics of two studies his firm did on Sales and Marketing alignment.

[16:16] Hugh was surprised by the results from the optimization of an aligned process. Sales reps are more likely to accept a marketing lead. Hugh notes the short life of a lead. Self-declared interest needs to be addressed the same day.

[21:20] When sales accepts more leads that will close, then both sales and marketing benefit from the improved results. A single, optimized process designed by both marketing and sales brings this result.

[22:37] Building a robust sales and marketing aligned process, and training both the marketers and reps, correlates with rises in acceptance, and closure, of late-stage opportunities.

[26:18] The data was not available on the quality of training in marketing and sales. The studies raised questions to explore. Some training appears to be an improvement over no training.

[28:36] Andy recently read an article comparing gender differences in sales, but there was little usable data. All reports have biases. Hugh’s research was looking for big differentiators. Alignment is the biggest they found.

[32:34] Organizations working for alignment adjust the process together. The driver for alignment in companies is when marketing and sales are not working together, and it shows. There are many voices making the case for alignment.


July 25, 2017

#520. The Key Traits of High-Performing B2B Marketing Teams. With Mathew Sweezey.

Mathew Sweezey, an author, keynote speaker, and Principal of Marketing Insights at, joins me on this episode of #Accelerate!


[2:53] Mathew says the biggest challenge facing sales professionals is understanding how people relate, how they want to be sold, and what they’re actually buying. A-type personalities do not often make the best sales professionals.

[4:17] Many sales postings ask for extroverts. These companies may not be around long. One third of the Fortune 500 has been replaced in the last decade. Old ideas are past. What a company sells, and how it sells, are separate issues.

[7:52] Salesforce surveyed organizations in 2016 to determine traits of high-performance B2B marketers. They used two self-selecting questions to identify the high performers.

[9:42] The questions asked their happiness with their position in their market, and with marketing outcomes. If these were exceptional, they were doing other things exceptionally. The top factor was executive buy-in, because tools are costly.

[11:41] Executive buy-in is the top factor in any organizational change. The CEO holds the organization accountable, and provides the funds to do it.

[13:22] High-performing organizations invest more in tools. High performers use 12 tools in their stack, vs. one-to-five. There must be a base level of technology in place to know the consumer. The C-suite is continually being asked for budget.

[18:22] Mathew shares his opinion on Gartner’s prediction that 80% of the B2B sales process will be owned by Marketing by 2020. Sales still works, but buyers have a new process. It’s the experience in total that matters.

[22:10] Customers will continue to have more information before talking to the salesperson. There will still be many touchpoints. Sales roles will shift and change. There will be a new relationship-building role between Marketing and Sales.

[25:15] The new role must be focused on the relationship. SaaS close rates are poor when the relationship is neglected. Andy cites Absolute Value. Matthew cites The Experience Economy, which places experience over product.

[28:07] People are learning. Skillsets, behaviors, and habits are going to change. The future of selling is about becoming more human, not less. Technology can only help you make better decisions. Matt quotes Tim Washer about blogs.

[30:03] Jacco vanderKooij writes about the emotional phases of the buying experience. Joe Pine writes about guiding the buyer to next question they need to ask through the buying experience. It is a human process of solving problems.

[32:05] The customer experience is about achievement, not about pain points. Support the customer on the story arc where they want to be.

July 24, 2017

#519. Tracking Account-Based Marketing Success. With Andrew Sinclair.

Andrew Sinclair, Founder of Lane Four, an account-based sales and marketing application, joins me on this episode of #Accelerate!


[2:01] Andrew says the biggest challenge facing sales reps is the time it takes reps to do administrative tasks instead of selling, to meet management’s need to track field activity.

[3:25] Terms like ‘track,’ ‘report,’ and ‘measure’ indicate that CRM is not meant to facilitate the job of the reps, but to control their activity. Andrew prefers enabling end-of-job tasks, such as using the sales order to enter activity data.

[6:06] Lane Four, for ABM, came from Andrew’s consulting company, which is focused on supporting funded startups. Four years ago they started building tools to make Salesforce easier for marketers. This led to account-based services.

[7:57] Bolting apps onto Salesforce can lead to data in separate sets. Lane Four is a native app integrated into Salesforce, minimizing data lag.

[12:49] Andrew explains how lead assignment and follow up — the first of the prototypical processes of Lane Four — is facilitated. Tracking is done automatically, measured in business hours between activities.

[15:30] Account creation is the second main process in Lane Four. Andrew talks about understanding organization and industry factors, leading to good account decisions.

[16:46] Opportunity creation is the next process Lane Four addresses. Andrew discusses forecasting models and various aspects of this process.

[18:18] The meaning of opportunity depends on what you want to measure, how long the sales cycle is, and how many meetings it involves. There is a lot of tracking involved.

[19:34] The longer the sales cycle is, the fuzzier the stages are, and the harder it is to track time. Andrew talks about the need for weekly sales meetings as a separate channel for tracking.

[21:27] Andrew notes adoption curves. Not everyone enters data at the right point and time. Predictive tools are only as good as the data entered.

[24:45] Humans are hugely unpredictable. Even large data sets can measure the wrong data and come up with the wrong forecast. Use regular sales meetings to verify engagement data. SDR data tools help measure sales engagement.

[27:10] There has been no widespread A/B testing on the use of SDR tools. People keep going for the shiny object. People on different tools are not being tracked similarly. Operational models need to be consistent, so as to track them consistently.

July 13, 2017

#508. How to Modernize Your Customer’s Sales Experience. With Daniel Rodriguez.

Daniel Rodriguez, VP of Marketing at Seismic Software, joins me on this episode of #Accelerate!


[:44] Daniel says many organizations have up-to-date marketing, and 2017 websites, but offer a 1997 customer sales experience. Sales reps take outdated decks (that aren’t even customized for this customer) to their intro meetings.

[3:07] Reps put themselves at a disadvantage by not using existing data about the customer in their intro. Reps may feel that they can’t access the data. The data needs to be on their phone and in Outlook.

[5:10] It has to be easier for a rep to do the right thing than to do the wrong thing. Daniel suggests that the organization should provide tech to conform to the rep’s existing behavior.

[6:16] Andy says the issue is that sales is in an unhealthy condition. Some behaviors need to change. Tech should make it easier to make needed changes. Daniel talks about the benefits for ‘B’ and ‘C’ players of a platform like Seismic.

[8:38] Modeling after the ‘A’ players may be a bad idea, as far as the process goes. ‘A’ players are given more leeway to go outside the process, due to their overperforming.

[9:50] ‘A’ players use their strengths. Is a ‘B’ player able to become an ‘A’ player, working within the process? Stage advancement is a main metric of success. Study which materials are most effective at each stage, for any rep to use.

[11:55] Knowing the correlation coefficient for material effectiveness is a challenge, by the large number of moving parts in any stage. Data suggests there are some things you should use that will be helpful, because they fit this case.

[14:18] There are other materials shown by data to be ineffective or negative. Reps need to be able to find the right content. Sales and Marketing need to discard content that is not good, and make good content findable.

[15:41] Marketing controls the overall message, but there is a targeted message for each sale. Sales wants control over that. Seismic gives content tools to Marketing and Sales, including required industry regulatory compliance language.

[19:42] Seismic transforms your message and sales collateral into strategic assets for your business. Marketing is not about billboards anymore, it’s about handing leads to sales. Now ‘enablement’ ties the CMO to revenue gen. and rep success.

[22:05] Seismic is used in Marketing and in Sales. It provides interaction with digital content. It allows screen sharing, and selling by iPad, to provide hyper-tailored content and follow-up collateral for that lead, in real time.

[24:36] Just before a sales meeting, a rep opens the Seismic app, finds the intro presentation, opens it, and runs a wizard that customizes it through CRM for the specific account, with a fitting case study. Daniel explains the full process in detail.

July 8, 2017

#503. The Future of Marketing is Now. With Jon Wuebben.

Jon Wuebben, Founder and CEO of Content Launch, author of  Content is Currency: Developing Powerful Content for Web and Mobile, and Future Marketing: Winning in the Prosumer Age, joins me for the second time on this episode of #Accelerate!


[1:21] Prosumer is a term coined by Alvin Toffler in The Third Wave, meaning producer and consumer in one. Jon says our interactions with Amazon and Facebook equal production and consumption of content. This is the Prosumer Age.

[3:09] Prosumers may not be direct customers, but they help determine marketing. Prosumers are breaking down the wall between company and customer in new ways with new tech.

[4:39] The customer experience is a collaborative process, especially B2B. Jon equates prosumer and customer experience. The Prosumer Age will grow in the next 10 years.

[5:51] Jon discusses megatrends — innovating to zero (carbon emissions, etc.), zero concept world (zero defects, zero breaches of security), mass efficiency.

[6:23] In many industries there is a zero point that is desirable to achieve. There is much waste today, and room for efficiencies across the board in every production process.

[8:32] Herbert Simon wrote about being overwhelmed by information, and making choices for the best investment. Andy points out overuse of technology can make us less focused.

[10:06] The sharing economy will become a bigger trend. Uber drivers have freedom of time they didn’t have in an office. Connectivity and convergence is a trend. In 2020 there will be five billion web users — with 50% on tablets.

[15:26] Jon discusses accuracy of prediction. Whether disruption will provide economic efficiency is to be seen. We need strong committed leaders to ‘usher in’ this new age.

[17:11] In near term, content marketing is a big trend, but as we produce more content, individual contributions are less effective, through competition for attention. Be on the forefront of what’s next. Use VR, or the next thing, for content.

[19:33] Native advertising is material within your blog or site, that resembles your content, but is a paid promotion. Influencer marketing uses influence partner’s networks to your advantage.

[23:33] Purpose-driven marketing refers to social purpose, important to Millennials and Generation Z. They want it to be authentic — not a campaign, but a culture. Jon suggests how a company can identify their purpose.

[27:41] Jon replaces the four Ps (Product, Price, Promotion, and Place) with EP2, which stands for Engagement, Experiences, Personalization, and Passion. This centers in every way about the prosumer, not about the company.

[29:50] Jon foresees a niche explosion replacing the mass market. The more focused on the customer, the more tightly defined a group you can serve, with more success. Big data drives this trend.

May 31, 2017

#472. How to Apply the 80/20 Rule to Your Sales. With Perry Marshall.

Perry Marshall, bestselling author of 80/20 Sales and Marketing: The Definitive Guide to Working Less and Making More, joins me on this episode of #Accelerate!


[2:27] Perry wishes he had had the 80/20 book when he got into sales after being laid off. There was so much he didn’t know. He got fired after two years. He got another job in direct marketing, and it started to click for him.

[7:18] Vilfredo Pareto figured out 20% of the people had 80% of the money. In sales, 20% of customers provide 80% of the sales. 20% of salespeople make 80% of sales. There’s always another 80/20 inside. It’s universal, and not only about money.

[11:32] 80/20 is a law of nature, because of positive feedback. Perry spells it out by examples. Past behavior reinforces future behavior.

[13:18] Perry tells how 10 salespeople start off on an even keel, but through positive feedback, one gets way ahead of the others. Some get negative reinforcement, and drift off course. Within a few months the top salesman sells 16 times more.

[15:24] Perry talks about a rock being eroded into the Grand Canyon. When erosion starts, you are on the way to a canyon. Inequalities multiply and compound. People try to equalize things. The best salesmen seek to amplify the inequalities.

[17:33] Perry lists five power disqualifiers. Apply each of these disqualifiers to contacts before asking for an appointment. You will learn which contacts are not leads. Sales starts with, “Well, who do I not pitch?” It’s a disqualifying process.

[20:44] Perry’s friend John hiked to Las Vegas at 17 to become a professional gambler. He met Rob, who taught him ‘racking the shotgun,’ to divide the ‘marks’ from the people paying attention. In sales, separate the prospects using natural law.

[25:38] Perry found that everything in his business matched an 80/20 pattern. You can use it predictively. Perry explains how, with 1,000 Starbucks customers as an example.

[30:19] Use the 80/20 rule to escape being in the 80%. Perry talks about sales styles. He calls his first boss a hostage negotiator. Others tell stories. Perry invented the Marketing DNA Test to help salespeople find their successful sales style.

[36:25] Align the way you sell with customers who buy the way you sell, and products that match your sales style. Perry says you can’t be a consultative seller as a cold caller. Find a role that matches your strengths.

[37:01] Perry writes books rather than cold calling. For him, cold calling would be a $10/hour job. Why do that when he can have the $1,000/hour job?

May 3, 2017

#448. Sales/Marketing Alignment and Account-based Strategies. With Justin Gray.

Justin Gray, Co-Founder and CEO of LeadMD, joins me on this episode of #Accelerate!


[2:24] Justin describes his two companies in brief, LeadMD and Six Bricks.

[3:32] Justin wrote an article on trends to watch: Quality, Tribe, and Process. Justin discusses Quality. People are evaluating how much time they can put into building brands with awesome content. Justin considers quality of content.

[8:52] How many emails should you send? How do you personalize 100K messages? Are your stacks set up to give you quick access to the data you need for personalization?

[12:22] Justin says data is the key for email, but the needed data from accounting and email systems are difficult to curate.

[14:43] Justin uses Engagio to tap into systems and retrieve essential data.

[15:22] SMBs can pivot in an agile manner. Hubspot has articles about best practices for SMBs. SMBs can learn from the mistakes of the Enterprise. Gather web behaviors and cart behaviors, and capture data.

[17:17] Build unity through trust. Are you all on the same mission? Justin evaluates five levels of Tribes.

[22:06] ABM and ABE mean ABR, according to Trish Bertuzzi. Is anyone person driving the boat in a sale? Don’t stress attribution, but on engagement. Look at it from a team perspective. There are multiple touches in the process.

[25:03] Justin talks about Process, regarding the buying committee, and mapping it to one or two people on the seller side. There should be no surprise decision makers that show up at the end of the deal, if you have an effective ABE Process.

[26:43] Sales and Marketing alignment, means the entire organization, including Customer Success, agreeing on the ABE process, and how it unrolls. Everyone on the team has a role. How to measure them all still needs some definition.

[29:03] Justin has some ideas on person-to-person engagement in sales. Justin talks about playbooks and plays, and measuring and recording activities.

[32:07] Use the solution that fits the income from an account. Small accounts cannot support the ABM treatment. What can you afford to invest in this account that will make the biggest impact? Go and do that.